Debate https://www.youtube.com/live/Zzjicdi3O0o?si=BYiNn9-bahsPqlyK Claims
- Gaza has been illegally annexed by Israel according to international law.
- has it been? Does the IC say that?
- Day after elections, Jimmy Carter declared them fair, then Israel put up a blockade.
- Why did the blockade go up? Legal status of blockade
- Operation Cast Iron ceasefire was broken.
- it was, but let’s get more information about this.
- I use all the sources, they say Hamas uses no human shields.
- sources even from AI and the UN say they do, so do Hamas??
- The Gaza ministry of health is a civilian organization
- What is the status of Gazan organizations?
- “Nobody says anything about the Israeli numbers when the number changed after Oct 7th”
- What are the official numbers, and why did they change?
- “Israel has the best first responders in the world…how did the number keep growing?”
- the implication being this was faked??
- 97% of water is poisonous from the ground wells. It’s not potable.
- is it?
- He says again “they’re all animals” and “they’re all legitimate targets”
- are these quotes accurate?
- Half dozen quotes by Israeli officials “let’s use this as an opportunity to get rid of the Palestinians from Gaza”
- what are they?
- They want to force Egypt to let them into the Sinai.
- where have they said this?
- People were trying to discredit the PLO back in the days. They did everything they could to get a two state solution under international law.
- black September??? Jordan/Lebanon??? Camp David??? Geneva accord???
- Beginning in 2006, there were many attempts to reach a settlement of the conflict. 30 year Truce.
- were there??? What did they look like???
- When I say Settlement, I mean based on the principals of International Law.
- palestinian refugee situation is unique, they go back right to their homes???
- Every year the UN votes on “Peaceful Settlement of the Palestine question.”
- what are the terms?
- Why doesn’t Egypt let any out to travel?
- dodges question and makes it about letting ALL Palestinians out
- They want to release them into the Sinai to rot and die.
- what??? Israeli settlements were popping up in the Sinai after ‘67, also again where is the proof for this?
- Does Hamas need to be dismantled? Well if Hamas needs to be dismantled, so does the Israeli government.
- do they really conduct themselves in the same way? Also he says he never dodges questions but this is ANOTHER DODGE.
- It “mows the lawn”
- source of this quote needed
- The people in Gaza were never given a chance.
- Were they?
- Bush forced elections, they voted Hamas, and then Israel put up the blockade.
- are we missing something here???
- It was a dictatorship, but that dictatorship was the result of never giving the people another election.
- didn’t Hamas toss out the Fatah and cancel all elections????
- Sociologist book “Politicized” called Gaza the largest concentration camp in 2003. More mow the lawn quotes.
- look up this rationale
- They did terror bombing in WWII to get the civilians to rise up against the Germans. Over 800,000 civilians killed.
- did they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ9UpduwHsY
75% of residents of gaza strip are refugees
- How many Jews are refugees?
- How many are ACTUAL refugees from 1948? Israeli politician quotes about ethnic cleansing/genocides People shot by snipers in “safe corridors” jews set up committees to study transfer/expulsion in the 1930’s
- 1948 how much was ethnic cleansing vs people fleeing etc… is ethnic cleansing always bad?
- Do Norm and Mouin want to see Israeli’s ethnically cleansed from the West Bank?
- Can Jews live in Area A/B? Why not? “Arab leaders telling Palestinians to flee is a hoax.” Nation State Law for Israel
- Laws relating to Jews/Muslims
https://www.unrwa.org/who-we-are/frequently-asked-questions
Why is Hamas bad?
- Not democratically elected. Coup’d Fatah, no elections.
- Transmits propaganda to children.
- Inhibits any peace process, they just want war. Remember the fighting with Abbas when he wanted truce in 2005.
- Utilize human shields. Even IC recognizes this.
- Hoards and diverts money from humanitarian places. Digging up pipes, stealing money, hoarding food.
- Digs tunnels, fires rockets constantly. Questions for Norm
- Does Hamas have a moral justification for terrorism against Isralies?
- Are their actions taking Palestine closer to or further from peace?
- How should Israel respond to Hamas?
- Why does Israel have the blockade?
- Why didn’t Egypt or Jordan make a Palestinian state in ‘48?
- Do you have any criticisms at all for Hamas?
- Is getting rid of Hamas a worthy goal?
- Do you support a one state or two state solution?
- Why doesn’t the IDF “mow the lawn” in the West Bank?
- Why do you say consensus says blockade illegal but only cite one footnote in chapter 4 of Method and Madness.
- Why do you describe the Turkel report as Quasi-Official?
The Blockade in Gaza
- Started in 2005
- Incident - In May of 2010, attack on Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara
- On September 27th, 2010, a UN General Assembly report from the HRC declared (on line 53/54) the blockade in Gaza to be collective punishment, or illegal under international law.
- In September of 2011, a report of the Secretary-General’s Panel of Inquiry on the 31st of May, 2010 Flotilla Incident claimed that the blockade followed international law. Elections in the Gaza Strip
- Background
- 2006 elections were the second set of elections for the PLC
- The Palestinian Cairo Declaration
- Called for the elections to be held using a mixed voting system.
- Under USAID, the US spent $2.3million in support for Palestinian elections.
- Some claim that this was an attempt to influence the results.
- Plan to overthrow Hamas
- Bush administration approved a plan to overthrow Hamas by funneling arms and resources to Fatah in the Gaza Strip.
- May 2007 - The Desoto Report of the same affair,
- Did Hamas moderate? 2008 Israel ceasefire breaking Tunnels are a right to self-defense Operation Cast Lead 3 times ceasefire that reduced blockade restrictions Protective Edge
- Bush administration approved a plan to overthrow Hamas by funneling arms and resources to Fatah in the Gaza Strip.
Future video
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/TurkelCommission.pdf https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/iccdocs/otp/OTP-COM-Article_53(1)-Report-06Nov2014Eng.pdf https://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/15session/a.hrc.15.21_en.pdf https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-205969 https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18042/#:~:text=Following%20are%20the%20%22offensive%E2%80%9D%20weapons,iron%20bars%20and%20iron%20chains
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/ https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule97 https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/015/2009/en/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MDE2116432015ENGLISH.pdf
- Human Shield Stuff
- Detailed discussion on 242, treatment into the future
- Restricting cookies/sugar
- Shlomo Ben Ami video/quote from book
- 2000 Camp David Summit
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-00-en.pdf
Israel-Hamas War: Norman Finkelstein vs Rabbi Shmuley | Full Debate
- “Israel is plausibly committing genocide by the ICJ.”
- Finkelstein has no concern for the Charlie Hebdo victims???
- “The intensity of the bombing, the density of the bombing, the magnitude with destruction of civilian infrastructure, the absolute number of children killed, the relative number of children killed to combatants killed, the percentage of women and children killed, the number of medical personnel and journalists killed”…Israel’s assault on Gaza, this is why they were brought before the ICJ.